Curse

OvertheHill · May 10, 2005, 10:18 PM // 22:18

There is no debate. If the people that are pounding on tabletops demanding to turn Guild Wars into a medieval themed Mortal Combat video game are allowed whine their way into ruining the PvP aspects of the game with PvP only skill unlocking... I will stop playing the game and will not buy expansions.

THIS game is what is getting high ratings in reviews. THIS game does not allow people with attention spans of no longer than one arena match to twitch-skill their way into game domination on the PvP side.

RoxorMcownage · May 11, 2005, 02:11 AM // 02:11

By the way, just FYI...an easy way to get the elites/skills you want is to level up one character all the wya to 20(which gives you about 40 skill points if you do the missions. Dont BUY any skills. capture the elites u want for those 2 professions, do the 2nd profession change quest, get the elites/skills you want for whatever classes you want.

Thats what I did. I've built all my chars off one char because I've earned 50 skill creds and never bought any skills(got them from quests). So you can basically buy 50 skills for the other 4 classes(all youll ever need).

Dont be lazy?

Beer w/Straw · May 11, 2005, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bamelin

You have to admit the netcode WAS kinda crappy though in Planetside ...

Bamelin

Do I?

Game with surge... equals game!

Game without surge is... WTF is this crap? I'd rather play a fruity RPG!

Netcode is not a factor.

You had people in Planetside with like a 386 abd a voodoo 1 running 1800x1600 resolution crying foul to net code.

Bamelin · May 11, 2005, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by OvertheHill

There is no debate. If the people that are pounding on tabletops demanding to turn Guild Wars into a medieval themed Mortal Combat video game are allowed whine their way into ruining the PvP aspects of the game with PvP only skill unlocking... I will stop playing the game and will not buy expansions.

How would it ruin PvP? And why would it be wrong to allow PvP gameplay to unlock skills as a reward?

RTSFirebat · May 11, 2005, 07:45 AM // 07:45

Personally I like the PvE quests in this game, they are rewarding (Most the time) and fun, plus he move the story on a bit.

But I do like the idea of maybe the PvP places rewarding hard-to-get skills.

eventhorizen · May 11, 2005, 07:55 AM // 07:55

Listen guys you cant just seperate the 2 aspects into non mutual games, if thats what you want here then do not play Guild Wars.

How many threads are their in WoW asking to nerf the roleplay so people can PvP with lvl 60 characters instantly? None. So because a.net has come out with a game that has a superior PvP element you are asking hem to split the game up? Make the two different aspects exclusive?

There might be a huge debate about this, but the complainers on every issue are far more vocal than the supporters. The vast majority of Guild Wars players might think some aspects could use tweaking but they certainly dont want to see this game split into 2 exclusive parts. Which is what would happen with PvP skill unlocking.

Simply stop whining about having to put time into a game. Either make the effort to play a game, or dont. You can make that choice, so please stop passing the buck to others and saying is a major issue. Its a major issue amongst the PvP instakill 10 second attention span crowd. Perhaps also some busy adult players. Neither of these groups realise this is an indepth complex next generation game. Either play the game you have, or don't play it. But dont demand your issues with the game change the game in such a fundamental way.
Begone with you.

eventhorizen · May 11, 2005, 08:27 AM // 08:27

The Debate Over Forced PvE Grind

That might be your opinion of the RPG element of this game, but since when did your opinion start becoming fact?

I am very concerned about the amount of people here claiming they are speaking for the PvP crowd at large, or large amounts of players, or that this is a raging debate, implying vast numbers of people are extremelly upset.

Thats rubbish. At best the posters here speak for themselves and a few mates, and get a couple of posts backup from other players. This is being put across as a burning issue in the Guild Wars community, when its a burning issue for a small number of people.

Recent burning issues in the Guild Wars community has been the availability of fur patches, and the frequency of fights in some arenas.
Yes those were burning issues amongst the community. You can see this by the number of DIFFERENT posters posting about those questions, the NUMBER of people in game discussing those issues, and the SPEED with which the developers heard and fixed those issues. Apart from the arena fights at late night, unfortunatly.

I would have thought there are VERY FEW people indeed who play Guild Wars with the fullest intentions of never playing through the PvE arenas. The vast majority of Guild Wars players would have bought this game for the whole game, to play the whole game, and waited patiently for the WHOLE GAME to be released.
You know yourself a game like Guild Wars was not exaclty advertised EA style on the TV for 7 days a week for the 3 months prior to launch. This means the players must have discovered the game for themselves, would have found out about the game themselves, online im assuming like myself, would have had a really really good idea of what to expect before launch, epsecially thanks to BWE.
My question is if you knew there was to be PvE 'grind' involved in this game why did you buy it only to complain about a feature you knew would exist in the game?

Ok so some people might have issues with the game, but its only issues about certain things they have to do to get certain rewards, and not about cheating stealing unbalanced items characters etc.

It comes down to the fact that we have here a game where you must collect what you use. The methods of collection compared to other games are incomparably faster and less of a 'grind', but this is still unaccpetable to a certain section of the player base.
The other issue is that this game is a competitive fantasy role play game. Even when fighting each other in a muddy bog we are still using our warriors and our mages, calling on demonic powers and holy wrath. This is supposed to be a game world that every member takes part in, but can take part in different ways.
This does not mean however that there are two games, or that you do not play in the one world. This is not a PvP game with a PvE stitched on, this is a Fantasy game set in a fantasy world that is designed for competitive longevity.

Much like Homeworld 2 for example. Or even Rome total war. Except however that the entire game is online, not just the competitive aspect, and this is not a game where you can totally ignore the 'game' to go kill other people, no matter how much adrenaline junkies might complain.

Its really easy guys. If an integral, major part of this game is such complete turn off, then go buy Homeworld 2, Rome Total War. They are both highly complex in their own rights, support I think 6 and 8 player deathmatches as well as team based combat, and you dont have to 'pretend' to be Ceaser or Karen S'jet in order to duke it out.

Alternativly if you cant do without your warriors and mages, then deep down you do like fantasy, and are just kicking up a stink because thats what you kind of people do to all new games in ever new forum

Manderlock · May 11, 2005, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Holy hell, not this again.

After talking to Pharalon in PMs, I see the issue. There still is no obviose way to "fix" it. Some people say lots of gold to get elite skills. If its to low they are too easy to get, and if its too high that would equal grind (exactly what we are trying avoid).

This is a IMO thing, but the PvPers get all of there atrabute pts in one fell swoop, while even a lvl 20 RP char is forced to do 2 extra quests to have the same amount of pts. Could they have meant it to be like that? I have no clue.

I am a fan of the current SoC prosses, and anything added on would undermine that. However, I see that some PvP players dont want to force themselves to play 100+ hours doning something that dont want to. Maby they can add a reward system to the new and improved arena, and make where random arenas are the only ones that can win it the prize.( that would help alievate some of Loviatars consernes).

I really dont want anything to change in the current system, as I said Im for the SoC. I takes skill and practice to be able to pull of a succesful capture. I can however see that current plight of PvP chars.

That being said, I dont want to see this turned into two different games. If PvPers are given this I fear that they will begin to complain about having to PvE at all. (PvP only players still have to play some PvE if they want to be worth anything in PvP) I alos dont want them try and "fix" this issue and then go completley overboard and screwing up something else.

Thats my view on this, take it how you will.

Xellos · May 11, 2005, 09:25 AM // 09:25

Let's make BlackAce happy, and say screw the elite system, and just frigging balance the skills! :P

RTSFirebat · May 11, 2005, 09:35 AM // 09:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manderlock

I am a fan of the current SoC prosses.

Sorry to ask but... what is SoC? Since I have no idea what your talking about.

super dooper · May 11, 2005, 09:37 AM // 09:37

when I think Role Playing Game I think old Final Fantasy and such.. you bought it knowing you were going to spend many many hours trying to win the game and find the best weapon. I just don't understand why you would buy this game for the PvP aspect expecting everything to be 'handed' to you. (yes, I understand some of you aren't asking for it to be handed to you on a silver platter, but in other ways) If you earned things for beating other opponents, or winning a certain amount of times, like someone else said (sorry for my short term memory right now, it's late :P ) it would turn into a sort of online Mortal Kombat/Soul Calibur 2. Now.. not that I've never dreamt of that, but not from Guild Wars.

I just don't see a way that they could do it without ruining some other aspect of the game or upsetting another group of people. As illustrated by VALVe a few times, you can't please everyone, and right now it seems like the majority of the Guild Wars community is pleased. Nothing is perfect. After things are said and done and this and that, I guess I'm in agreeance with Manderlock, they probably shouldn't mess with it.

eventhorizen · May 11, 2005, 09:52 AM // 09:52

Amen, not right now, not 2 weeks after launch.

Manderlock · May 11, 2005, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

Sorry to ask but... what is SoC? Since I have no idea what your talking about.

SoC= Sig of Capture

Vangor · May 11, 2005, 10:37 AM // 10:37

How can people be so blind to the fact that they include the option to create PvP characters off the bat with builds? Granted you gain a better variety of skills through PvE exploration, the fact is you can jump right in with the highest armor (not the underworld stuff but equal), great held items, a good build, the arenas open to you, and the ascension quests technically finished for points.

That right there is a definitive seperation between PvE and PvP. In the last BWE's I unlocked skills and PvP'd for most of it, Idon't think I ever got my character past the searing, and if you take a competitive FPS game, they might have a single player element, or a more roleplaying one if you prefer, and then place with it the obvious server selection choices and so on.

It is easy to divide, but, no one is saying divide, just different paths that the game focuses on, victory in arenas would still require the same focus towards playing, perhaps not the length, but, let em miss out on a few things, it is like skipping Half-Life just to play HL

M, sure you got to that before me though I got more.

Manderlock · May 11, 2005, 10:43 AM // 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vangor

How can people be so blind to the fact that they include the option to create PvP characters off the bat with builds? Granted you gain a better variety of skills through PvE exploration, the fact is you can jump right in with the highest armor (not the underworld stuff but equal), great held items, a good build, the arenas open to you, and the ascension quests technically finished for points.

That right there is a definitive seperation between PvE and PvP. In the last BWE's I unlocked skills and PvP'd for most of it, Idon't think I ever got my character past the searing, and if you take a competitive FPS game, they might have a single player element, or a more roleplaying one if you prefer, and then place with it the obvious server selection choices and so on.

It is easy to divide, but, no one is saying divide, just different paths that the game focuses on, victory in arenas would still require the same focus towards playing, perhaps not the length, but, let em miss out on a few things, it is like skipping Half-Life just to play HL

M, sure you got to that before me though I got more.

If you try and use premies, you will get owned in real PvP. So yea you *have* to do PvE if you want to be a competive PvP player.

Vangor · May 11, 2005, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Oh I assure you, I wouldn't attempt to use any of the builds already made, granted I'm doubtful they suck because of how well the skills have been designed, unless that is what you made, it won't work out. However, the fact is that there is the viability to these pre-made builds and the few quick skills you can get pre-searing over an hour to basically progress purely as PvP, but there isn't much true progression in PvP as there could be. It wouldn't realistically splinter the game is the fact.

In fact, I'm saying that the pre-made builds obviously aren't enough, or else no one would be having this discussion if they thought that was all they needed.

Manderlock · May 11, 2005, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vangor

Oh I assure you, I wouldn't attempt to use any of the builds already made, granted I'm doubtful they suck because of how well the skills have been designed, unless that is what you made, it won't work out. However, the fact is that there is the viability to these pre-made builds and the few quick skills you can get pre-searing over an hour to basically progress purely as PvP, but there isn't much true progression in PvP as there could be. It wouldn't realistically splinter the game is the fact.

In fact, I'm saying that the pre-made builds obviously aren't enough, or else no one would be having this discussion if they thought that was all they needed.

?

?

You do know that this is a continuation of the SoC thread, right?

It would splinter the game, if you think that premies are actually usefull or you only need pre-serian skills (that made me laugh), its your perogitive. The fact remains that this game is just that one game. It dose NOT need to become 2 seperate games. If it did this then it would be unfair to the people like myself, who like to play both. (that is the vast majority of people you know)

heeman · May 11, 2005, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Play PVE and stop whinning
This is not planetside. This is not PVP game. It's guild war. It's an rpg.
Go kill monsters and get your reward. Let's be simple about this.

Vangor · May 11, 2005, 12:49 PM // 12:49

Why do I have to spell this out...I'm not saying that using a premade skill set is good, or that getting only pre-searing skills as actually useful. Hell I am ascended, I've switched my class, been leveling other characters to get these skills. However, the premise of the game is for all skills to be viable, it wouldn't make it two seperate games, and that is the point, not what the hell you think of the early skills or skill sets.

And I still do not see how this would be unfair, I'd still play PvE, but right now I have to in order to bother with PvP, because like you, I don't care for the builds and early skills. The problem is this have to in order to get on.

Why not add a counter-balance for the PvE side instead of simply saying that it would somehow imbalance it, or make it so that trying to get up in this manner would appeal to the PvP player but require just the same amount of time and energy as the PvE side of things.

As well, it has never gotten off track as far as the signet is concerned, this still applies and may be limited in its use or not.

Manderlock · May 11, 2005, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vangor

Why do I have to spell this out...I'm not saying that using a premade skill set is good, or that getting only pre-searing skills as actually useful. Hell I am ascended, I've switched my class, been leveling other characters to get these skills. However, the premise of the game is for all skills to be viable, it wouldn't make it two seperate games, and that is the point, not what the hell you think of the early skills or skill sets.

And I still do not see how this would be unfair, I'd still play PvE, but right now I have to in order to bother with PvP, because like you, I don't care for the builds and early skills. The problem is this have to in order to get on.

Why not add a counter-balance for the PvE side instead of simply saying that it would somehow imbalance it, or make it so that trying to get up in this manner would appeal to the PvP player but require just the same amount of time and energy as the PvE side of things.

As well, it has never gotten off track as far as the signet is concerned, this still applies and may be limited in its use or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vangor

However, the fact is that there is the viability to these pre-made builds and the few quick skills you can get pre-searing over an hour to basically progress purely as PvP, but there isn't much true progression in PvP as there could be.

You dont have to spell it out, thats what your said

You should have found out about what this thread was about before you started to post on. I dont even think that the OP would want two seperat games, wich no matter how you cut it is what you want. What do you want them to do, go in and add a story to PvP, thats ludacris.

the PvP in GW is widly know as the "end-game", and it should stay like that. At the the end of the game.